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Zilver / Goud (en Platina / Palladium) DEEL 2

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quote:

Tradecommander schreef:

Beste PO1,
Je 'wishorder" komt helaas 2 cent te kort... er werden net turbo's gekocht door iemand anders op 1,32. (Ik was het niet! Helaas)

BRJ van harte gefeliciteerd!!! Maak er een leuke dag van en geniet van je winst :D!

Gr, TC
Misschien ga ik mezelf straks op wat leuke turbo's zilver long trakteren.
Thanks man..!!!
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Ik had vandaag een order ingelegd op 1,31, maar die heb ik er weer uitgehaald (hoewel het er naar uitziet dat dit nog wel wordt aangetikt) Ik heb besloten mijn zilver 10,80 te verhogen: iets meer ruimte en nauwelijks verschil in hefboom.
Dus daar heb ik er 2000 bijgekocht voor 1,99
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De keuze is gevallen op Platina.
Ik heb 6500 stuks (5000+1500) gekocht a 1,05.
Fondscode: 17544
Stoploss 1002
Als ik de rapporten er op na lees betreffende supply/demand is platina het meest schaars.
Het is gezien de hefboom en de stoploss iets defensiever, maar zal mijns inziens binnenkort een flinke spurt omhoog maken.
Gr/brj
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faites-vos-jeux
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yanks werken harder dan wij!

platina is een interessante keuze, spoort goed met inschatting van schaarste in UBS-analyses

iets anders: wat zegt de theorie over de techniek van het doorrollen; ik zit me af te vragen wat ik met mijn zilver het beste kan doen (heb 3000 TL sl 10,-); ik kan rustig blijven zitten totdat zilver naar de 16,- gaat, maar bijv. ook een deel winstnemen en een deel doorrollen (naar de 10,60?); zien jullie nog veel gebeuren de komende dagen?
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quote:

faitesvosjeux schreef:

yanks werken harder dan wij!

platina is een interessante keuze, spoort goed met inschatting van schaarste in UBS-analyses

iets anders: wat zegt de theorie over de techniek van het doorrollen; ik zit me af te vragen wat ik met mijn zilver het beste kan doen (heb 3000 TL sl 10,-); ik kan rustig blijven zitten totdat zilver naar de 16,- gaat, maar bijv. ook een deel winstnemen en een deel doorrollen (naar de 10,60?); zien jullie nog veel gebeuren de komende dagen?
Doorrollen kost je wel zo'n 3 tot 6 ct tussen de diverse bid/ask spreads.
Zelf zie ik de prijzen voor zilver en platina en goud verder oplopen, echter tussentijdse correcties zijn altijd mogelijk.
Goud corrigeerde ook van 550 naar 495 en van 575 naar 535 dus kan ook van 604 naar 570/560.
Zilver zou bij 10 pct correcte naar 11,35 kunnen.
Geloof jij ook in hogere prijzen op termijn, en ben je niet bang voor wat wilde fluctuaties, dan kun je mijns inziens beter blijven zitten met de stoploss op 10.
Gr/brj
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quote:

faitesvosjeux schreef:

yanks werken harder dan wij!

platina is een interessante keuze, spoort goed met inschatting van schaarste in UBS-analyses

iets anders: wat zegt de theorie over de techniek van het doorrollen; ik zit me af te vragen wat ik met mijn zilver het beste kan doen (heb 3000 TL sl 10,-); ik kan rustig blijven zitten totdat zilver naar de 16,- gaat, maar bijv. ook een deel winstnemen en een deel doorrollen (naar de 10,60?); zien jullie nog veel gebeuren de komende dagen?
Ik heb de zilver 10 verkocht op redelijk hoog nivo en er 10,80 voor teruggekocht op redelijk laag nivo. Er zit zoveel beweging in dat je wel een voordelige keuze kunt maken.
Platina laat ik zitten, als ik kijk hoe dat de laatste maanden beweegt dan geloof ik niet dat het op kan tegen de beweging in zilver en goud. Ook de omzet in die turbo's is niet te vergelijken met zilver. En omzet is toch van belang als je er weer af wilt. Volatiliteit.
(maar ik blijf natuurlijk wel gluren hoe het gaat!)
faites-vos-jeux
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ja ik herinner me dat ik mijn zilver TL 10 een of twee dagen kocht nadat jij dat deed, ook zelfde aantal weet ik nog

10% correctie is inderdaad een goede maatstaf en dan zou ik met TL 11,60 nog binnen de gevarenzone zitten; doorrollen naar een lagere sl dan de 11,60 is inderdaad de moeite niet

eigenlijk, bedenk ik, is het beste moment voor doorrollen op het dieptepunt van correctie (dat lukt natuurlijk nooit precies) maar dan kort daarna in de herstelfase

met goud zit ik in TL sl 560 dus aan de rand van 10% criterium, gaat dus wel, maar ik heb toen ook zitten denken aan de speeder sl 550 (in Frankfurt)
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Aardig berichtje:
Zou het kunnen zijn dat er edelmetaalmijnen in de problemen komen, doordat de goud- en zilverprijs stijgt? Je zou toch zeggen van niet, met nieuwe records van goud boven de $600 en zilver $12,50. Nee, velen zien een hefboom- werking van deze mijnaandelen t.o.v. de bullionprijzen. Er loeren echter 2 addertjes onder het gras! Hedging en projectfinanciering.

lees verder op
www.blikopdebeurs.com/weblog

faites-vos-jeux
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interessante analyse van Citigroup over de redenen waarom goud wel (pros) en niet (cons) zou moeten stijgen; uiteindelijk verwachten ze goud "to ratchet much, much higher over time":

PROS:

➤ Geopolitics. The nuclear standoff in Iran, conflict in Iraq, the leftward lurch in Latin
America, and political fragmentation in the US and EU are likely if lamentably sufficient to maintain an undercurrent of safe-haven demand.

➤ Long-term economic imbalances. Citigroup economists remain concerned over intractable imbalances in trade, investment, currencies, interest rates, and debt. They expect the US trade deficit to expand to a record 6.8% of GDP in 2006, and for a renewed trend of dollar weakening due to central bank reserve re-balancing, and interest
rate differentials drawing investment flows away from the US. Gold responds to financial stress, and it is unlikely that these imbalances will be resolved without dislocation.
➤ Investment demand driving gold, but tiny in dollar terms. The recent gold rally has been almost entirely driven by investment demand, as fabrication fell 18.3% YoY in 4Q/05 due to price elasticity effects. Net investment in physical gold was $11 bln worldwide in 2005, a rounding error compared to equity or fixed income markets.
➤ Central Bank sales likely to undershoot, accumulation possible. Central bank sales
appear to be tracking well shy of 2005’s torrid 663 T pace. Switzerland has finished its
program. The ECB has indicated that it is finished for the year. Quotas as shifting to France and Germany, where legislative roadblocks remain formidable. At the same time, offsetting accumulation is possible among Asian and Middle Eastern central banks.
➤ Support from other commodities. Gold has benefited from asset allocation-driven
investment inflows into metals and energy. While $600/oz is impressive, gold has actually underperformed copper, nickel, and zinc which have increased 150-307% since early 2003, minor metals such as molybdenum which have increased 5-10x, and even select grades of coal and steel. In real dollar terms, gold in 2005 was well shy of 1995
levels.
➤ Pent-up physical demand should buffer the downside. On a defensive note, we believe gold will prove resistant to any catastrophic selloff, due to pent-up physical demand in price-sensitive Asian markets. Fabricators are more sensitive to price volatility rather than absolute levels, while patterns in scrap and retail suggest that
physical buyers, so much in evidence in 1H/05, will re-enter the market on price dips.

CONS:

➤ Interest rates raise gold opportunity cost. Higher real interest rates have traditionally
posed headwinds for gold, by raising the opportunity cost of holding a non interestbearing
asset. Of course the key question is real, rather than nominal, rates – begging questions about the relevance of “core” inflation figures and consumer versus asset inflation. Our sense is that the drivers of interest rates and slope of the yield curve are more important than nominal levels.
➤ Fabrication collapse is unhealthy. With fabrication contracting 18.3% YoY in 4Q/05,
and indications that it has fallen further in 1Q/06, the gold market is becoming extended,
one-dimensional, and potentially vulnerable to vicious corrections. Fabrication demand
is typically 4-6x investment demand, with jewelry accounting for roughly 76% of the total. GFMS believes that jewelry could fall as low as 2,200 T, a level last seen in 1990. We believe it is important for the gold price to pause for a period of months, to allow fabrication to re-equilibrate and come back into the market.
➤ Scrap surge. Scrap flows accelerated dramatically with the gold price in late 2005, with
the fourth quarter seeing 30% of the year’s total, and most of that in December. This contrasts with the pattern of declining price elasticity of secondary supply seen in recent years as most of the “near-market” scrap had seemingly been flushed out. Scrap is one of the most important lines in the supply/demand model, as it can vary by 400 T/year and is extremely price-sensitive with virtually no lead time. Indications are that rapid scrap flows have continued into 2006.
➤ De-hedging wanes. Mining company de-hedging has the effect of draining liquidity from the gold market, and has been an important source of support for gold over the past five years. In 2005, de-hedging eased to 131 T from 2004 highs of 427 T. GFMS expects de-hedging to re-accelerate somewhat in 2006. The risk is that if both dehedging and investment demand wane, there could be 200 – 300 TPY “excess” gold in the market. We do not expect this to transpire.
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FVJ Stel voor jou te benoemen tot(onbezoldigd) documentator van deze draad. Je doet dat goed en het scheelt mij zoeken. Dank
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Goud heeft net de steunlijn die de afgelopen halve maand intact bleef bevestigd (590).

Als je gelooft in een verdere opmars de komende weken dan is dit wellicht een mooi instapmoment.

gr bbbeer
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Gold Falls as Lower Crude Oil Prices Ease Concern of Inflation
April 13 (Bloomberg) -- Gold fell in London as lower oil prices reduced the appeal of the precious metal as a hedge against inflation.

Crude oil fell as concern eased over possible shortages from Iran and Nigeria. Speculation of an international dispute over Iran's nuclear research program sparked gains in gold and oil on April 10. Gold is up 39 percent in the past year, exceeding $600 in London this week for the first time in 25 years.

The lower oil price ``is probably going to add pressure on gold,'' said Frederic Panizzuti, a senior vice president at MKS Finance in Geneva.

Gold for immediate delivery fell $1.70, or 0.3 percent, to $596.67 an ounce at 11:24 a.m. in London. Prices on April 11 reached $604.30, the highest since December 1980.

Prices rebounded from a low of $593.79 as investors ``probably thought it looked quite cheap,'' said Matthew Turner, an analyst at Virtual Metals Consulting in London. ``In bull markets like this, people tend to justify everything.''

Gold has climbed 1.3 percent this week, heading for the fifth straight weekly gain. Trading is closed tomorrow and April 17 for public holidays.

Some investors buy gold in times of inflation to preserve purchasing power. The precious metal for immediate delivery surged to $850 an ounce in 1980, when U.S. consumer prices jumped more than 12 percent. The 1980 average high is equal to $1,456.40 an ounce in inflation-adjusted 2005 dollars, metals researcher GFMS Ltd. said in its annual gold report yesterday.

Gold in the London ``fixing'' will probably trade over $600 next week, Turner said. The fixing is conducted by telephone twice a day by Deutsche Bank AG, HSBC Holdings Ltd, Bank of Nova Scotia, Societe Generale SA and Barclays Plc. The high for the fixing was $599.50 on April 11.


To contact the reporter on this story:
Claudia Carpenter in London at Ccarpenter2@bloomberg.net.
Last Updated: April 13, 2006 06:38 EDT
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Aangezien de Paasdagen gaan beginnen heb ik de positie met stoploss 11,60 (zilver) gesloten (1,41 dus 2 cent per turbo winst). Ik heb wel nog een kleine positie in 10,80.

Jongens, gezellige Paasdagen en BRJ ook alvast voor morgen gefeliciteerd!

Bye, TC
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quote:

Tradecommander schreef:

Jongens, gezellige Paasdagen en BRJ ook alvast voor morgen gefeliciteerd!

Bye, TC
Bedankt TC,
En jullie ook een leuke Pasen toegewenst...met "gouden" eieren
Ciao/brj
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Can Gold Get to $850?

By Lindsay Williams
13 Apr 2006 at 10:13 AM EDT

JOHANNESBURG (Business Day) -- Classic Business Day gets Neil Meader, Senior Analyst at respected U.K. precious metals consultancy GFMS, on the line about the gold price and their latest report.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: Gold went to $604 yesterday around 7:30 a.m. South African time - that’s the highest level since 1981. It has slipped back, but it hasn’t slipped back very much bubbling under $600 at the moment in New York. Neil, a few headlines on the newswires this afternoon: “Gold de-hedging slows, but sentiment remains unchanged,” and: “Gold investor interest set to continue.” The one that caught my eye is: “Further hefty gains in gold price possible according to GFMS.” Maybe we should start with the supply side, and the de-hedging headline - are you getting evidence now that the mines are less keen to buy back their hedges?



NEIL MEADER: That comment would be a little misleading. To a degree what we saw in 2004 was very unusual circumstances, linked principally to the failure of Sons of Gwalia, so the contrast from 2004 to 2005 is more due to exceptional circumstances in the prior year - I think looking forward we would expect de-hedging in 2006 somewhere between 200 and 300 tonnes. That’s primarily because the producers’ attitudes towards hedging remains quite hostile - so I think to a degree it’s just a couple of one-off incidences that explain this swing between those two years. So I think looking forward we are still in that firm scenario of a couple of hundred tonnes of de-hedging a year to be expected.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: Talking about the corporate side of things - which is obviously linked to the hedging process - we are in an awful lot of consolidation, and potential consolidation in the market. Do you think looking at prices and price trends that consolidation is a bullish factor for the price?

NEIL MEADER: Some people have certainly seen that as a bullish factor, but I really think that the focus for the bullish sentiment would have to be much more on investment - the issue of consolidation within mine production, I think that would be much more of a background feature.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: On the supply side world gold mining output was up 2% in 2005 against a backdrop of falling output in South Africa - do you see the trend in global output continuing up in 2006?

NEIL MEADER: Very much so, yes. We expect slight acceleration in the rate of growth for 2006 - we could be looking at an increase of 4%, or something like that, for 2006. There’s a handful of new projects coming onstream, others coming up to full speed - quite a few of those are in Latin America.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: A final part of the equation on the supply side that I want to look at - do you see lower official sales in 2006?

NEIL MEADER: Indeed, yes.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: Is that central banks you’re talking about?

NEIL MEADER: Correct, yes. The official sector is just a slightly broader more inclusive way of saying central banks.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: We’ve got geo-political concerns, an uncertain world currency market and financial system - of course gold benefits from that and becomes an asset class, almost a currency on its own - do you see the investor interest that’s almost at unprecedented levels continuing over the next few months?

NEIL MEADER: Very much so, yes. I think it will probably be a little longer than a couple of months - I think most people would expect that this scenario we’re in of sustained investor interest could be with us for the next year or two.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: When you talk about investor interest are you talking about the private investor who buys futures on the commodity exchange in New York, or the Chinese or Indian investor who buys a small bar of gold? How can you characterise the nature of this interest?

NEIL MEADER: We’ve split the investment into various categories, and we have a bar hoarding line. That would cover the Indian or Chinese private consumer purchasing physical metal in those countries. We also look at coin fabrication - that would cover another raft of investment. Those two areas haven’t been performing in a particularly exciting fashion in the last year or two. The area of interest has been in something that we classify as implied net investment - that would cover all those areas that are really quite difficult to quantify, and to really get hard information on. You can get some areas, for example the exchange traded funds. The type of people investing there would be commodity trading advisors, hedge funds, some high net worth individuals and so on. There really isn’t that much coming through from the retail level - so that would be the much smaller investor, buying limited amounts. The weight of money really is very much on the institutional side at the moment.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: If you just took the Commodity Exchange of New York - one of the traditional derivative ways of playing the gold market - would you say that the market is overheated at the moment with a record open interest, and record levels of speculation?

NEIL MEADER: I think that’s a very valid concern - as to whether we are in a bubble market - and I think it’s quite fair to say that it is only investment that has driven the price to where it is, and if you removed that investment element the price would see a substantial fall. But whether we could quite push that to saying that the market is over-heated - that might be a little strong. I certainly feel that investment does have some way to run its course, and I think you would be quite brave really to stand in the way of the rally we’ve seen - and bubbles, if that is indeed an appropriate term, can endure for some time.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: Yes, they can. I think as you say it would be a very brave person that said: “Right gold has now peaked at $600 - that’s the end of it, so let’s go elsewhere.” Jewellery fabrication is up 4%. Is there any one factor that we haven’t mentioned this evening that could push the price to the sort of levels that some of the gold bugs have been talking about that we saw back in 1980 or 1981?

NEIL MEADER: I think there are only two things that could take it that high. That would be investors really coming in on a much more concerted way into gold - people should be looking out for any obvious signs of a crack in the dollar. If there is U.S. military action against Iran - that sort of thing would really get the market interested. If we saw something like some of the central banks taking on a much larger gold purchasing stance - that would get the market very interested. At the moment we are expecting some of the central banks - the mid-tier players - to become involved. We are not really expecting anything major like the dollar holders in the Far East - China, Japan and Taiwan would be the three most obvious examples - in the short to medium-term to buy any bullion. But if people got wind that was being planned, or they thought there was potential - that could certainly drive the price higher.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: Your prediction for the gold price at the end of 2006 in U.S. dollars?

NEIL MEADER: We haven’t mostly come up with a firm target, but I certainly think there is strong upside to potential - I think we will see prices safely over the $600 level, whether it will be up to the $700 level remains open to question. I think if we are going to see th
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CNBC berichtte vorige week en deze week dat de mijnbouwsector de komende jaren gaat (blijft) boomen. De mijnen zijn massaal aan het investeren in nieuwe produktie, geholpen door metaalprijzen die hoog zullen blijven. De mijnen zijn in hun calculaties uitgegaan van een fors lage metaalprijs en zelfs op die basis bleken investeringen rendabel.

Helaas geen turbo op Rio etc. Maar wel op de Australische index. En komen er ook mijnen in de RDX (naast de olie-en gasgiganten)? Maar misschien wat winsten wegzetten op rustige kalme fondsen is ook niet zo'n slecht idee.
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